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My name is Gary Henderson. And I built the creator studio to show you what's possible. Today we have a really cool guest. So I got started on clubhouse, the end of 2020. And during my first several months there, it was really common to get into what we called a mod squad. Which was a group of creators that we're all creating together on platform. And we would share, we would support each other. We would show up in each other's spaces and stuff like that. So, I got involved in the UK mod squad and I was an honorary member. So it was John Lee and Rob Moore and ed Smith and Shai and Samantha. And there was a couple of other people that would float around and. Yeah, there was this group of, of UK creators and they were really successful. Well, I was the token American. And during the first several months on clubhouse, that was there a lot. I spent a lot of time with them. And Robin, I ended up developing a really fun relationship. So I help Rob with one of his book launches. Rob has dropped the progressive coin or the Prague client on our platform, and we're going to spend some time talking about audience growth, the fed reverse. We're going to talk about how money is a tool. And we're going to talk about social tokens so let's jump right into the studio with rob moore

Gary Henderson: 1:17

Good morning, Rob. Can you hear me?

Rob Moore: 1:20

Gary, can you hear me?

Gary Henderson: 1:21

I've got you loud and clear. Welcome to our Discord server.

Rob Moore: 1:25

This is the first time I've ever done anything like this on discord, Gary. So you have broken my virginity.

Gary Henderson: 1:31

You know, you're not the first person. We brought in Jessie Lee, and Jessie Lee said she had never been in Discord. And we brought in Pedro Adeo, and he had never been in Discord. Almost every guest to date, we do them all live here. And this is tokenized. So every person here has either paid an annual membership fee or they own an NFT. That's the only way they get into this room. We record it live and we'll release it on the podcast so everybody else can experience it. But, um, we, we kind of control who gets in here live. So it's a bit of an experience, but I'm glad you're here with us.

Rob Moore: 2:03

Thanks for having me.

Gary Henderson: 2:05

So Rob, I want to spend, look, you've got tons of content out here and we could spend our entire day talking about your backstory and how you got started. But the goal of the podcast, the creator studios to show creators, what's possible. And when I look at all of the creators that I know, and I look through your numbers, 298, 000 followers on Facebook, 237, 000 subscribers on YouTube, 270, 000 followers on Tik TOK, 251, 000 followers on Instagram, 291, 000 followers on clubhouse, an email database of over 800, 000 people, plus your podcast, plus your LinkedIn, plus your Twitter. Rob, you've got one of the most insane platforms of any creator I know. So I'd love to spend our time today talking about the importance of the platform, how you created it, and where you see energy moving forward. Does that sound good with you?

Rob Moore: 2:59

Yeah. And, um, um, you know, I've never been a celebrity at anything, Gary. So not that this is better or worse right or wrong, but I've sort of built my following in a very entrepreneurial, hard working kind of way more than, you know, I had five minutes of fame or. Um, you know, or was really amazing at something. And the reason I say that is because maybe I'm the good example of the normal guy who's built a following as opposed to, well, you know, of course, Cristiano Ronaldo, of course, would have a huge following because he's the best footballer in the world. So

Gary Henderson: 3:37

And I think that's a great place to start because you kind of got started on your journey working for your dad in the pub. Is that right?

Rob Moore: 3:43

yeah, so, um, I was 26 and I was 50, 000 pounds in consumer debt and I was working as a essentially a glorified barman in his pub way before the days that a creator was a role or a career. Um, but I always wanted to be an entrepreneur, Gary. That was one thing I knew that I was. I was quite lost. I didn't know what I wanted to be. But one thing I really think my dad did very well is he instilled in me the ethic to build something yourself and take full responsibility for it. And he built in me a good work ethic, but. I could never really get that out of me working for someone else. It just wasn't how it's not how I'm built. Um, so I've got my dad to thank for, I guess, raising me in an entrepreneurial way. Um, it was actually my dad had a nervous breakdown in his pub and the police beat him up and arrested him and sectioned him. And it was then that I probably, that was maybe I did the most amount of soul searching in my life and realized. My life probably isn't going to get any worse. I'm young enough and broke enough to, you know, be able to maybe take a risk. Um, and if I don't, yeah, I just, I felt quite shit at that point in my life, Gary. But I think that was also motivational in a way.

Gary Henderson: 5:29

I could see that. You know, I, I don't know what it would feel like to, you know, see my dad have a nervous breakdown. My dad was an alcoholic. I wasn't around him too much when I was a kid. Um, My, the stories that I was told from my family was he was an amazing man when he was sober and he was the worst man ever when he wasn't. So, you know, I, I dealt with a little bit different childhood than that, but I can't imagine what that was like. So your dad's had this nervous breakdown, you're in the pub, what, what do you do? What do you, you say you want to build something on your own for yourself. What do you do? What's this action you take?

Rob Moore: 6:07

Well, I had, I'm not the kind of guy that's ever been good at any one thing except art. I, um, I could draw very hyper realistic. Pictures and I was always top of the class or top of the year or even top of the entire country in GCSE art. So while I was pulling pints working in my dad's pub, I thought, well, what if I do some paintings and, you know, maybe. Unleash the more sort of contemporary modern flair, you know, art is obviously very subjective So I started and did some just quite modern very free pieces of art on large canvases and There was a local interior line furniture shop and because it was a local bespoke one, a nice upmarket one, it wasn't a chain, I went in with my art and just said, would you hang this for me? And would you want to sell it? And he said, well, I don't know if it will work, but should we do a sale or return? I didn't know what a sale or return was. It was basically that he didn't have to buy it off me. He could sell it or give it back. And I sold a few paintings and it wasn't quite enough to make a living but it was enough to transition me Gary through and I suppose that was maybe my first dive into being a creator. Um, and so I was broke, motivated, I felt like I really owed my dad actually. And I was doing art part time way before, I mean this would have been at the point when there was Friends Reunited had just started. It was even pre Facebook. Um, one thing I've learned since then is that you can really be yourself and express yourself and make a great living from it. And for me, that, that is, like, why should life be? that you exchange a third of it, i. e. eight hours a day, doing something you don't enjoy, getting paid just enough to get by, not quite enough to leave and trying to earn enough money to buy some time to do the things you love, but then you don't have any time to do the things you love and you don't have any money either. Why can't you merge your passion with your profession? Why can't you turn your content into cashflow? What you already know into cashflow. And this, this is the great thing about the creator movement, Gary, that, you know, you and I make a full time living from, is you get to express yourself and you can be very artistic. And if you think about what you've done in the world of NFTs. Um, it, it's a very artistic thing. Um, I, I would not change my life any other way now, and I, I think, um, get to balance creative with the commercial. So Harry, who's my head producer and sort of manage my brand, you know, we have this discussion all the time between ourselves and also, you know, I've done a thousand episodes of my podcast disruptors and, um, I'm gonna use some rather bold language. So if anyone doesn't like fruity language, You know, just um, bear in mind I'm from Peterborough, just outside the UK. Swearing was our grammar. That's how I was raised. Don't judge me. Um, but, in our world right now, Gary, we have the artist in ourselves, and we have the algorithm whore in ourselves. And, you know, I like to create this discussion, Gary, because would I rather be the greatest artist? I think I could be and really love my art, but no one see it or be a bit of a sellout, you know, but you know, a hundred million people engage with me or however many that I can make a great living out of. And that to me is a really, But also very interesting paradox. I think now more than ever, you can balance both sides of that, whereby you can be creative, express yourself in your desired art form, which by the way, I think business and entrepreneurship is an art form. I really do. And marry that up with. You know, hacking the algorithms and doing a lot of tracking and testing and analyzing and some content You admitted to me, Gary, a couple of your titles were a bit clickbaity So you do those, that clickbaity stuff and you get the attention But then you show them your great art and you look after them and you create these great communities And I've never seen any time in the history that I've been alive that's ever been like that

Gary Henderson: 11:35

You know, Rob, I find it fascinating that you started out young as an artist and sold some art, and then you dove into real estate and become one of the most successful real estate training companies in the world. And now you've gone back to Your own unique style of art again creating your content being yourself being a little bowl being a disruptor being out there I wonder and this is just a question. Do you think if? The opportunities that exist today for creators would have been around way back then Do you think you would have went into real estate or do you just think you would have started building as a creator?

Rob Moore: 12:12

I definitely would have tried to digitize my art, Gary. That's one thing I know I would have done I mean, it's difficult, isn't it, to go back and know what you would have done? And you know, I love my life. So why would I change anything? And I've become very wealthy. And I actually am one of the few people I know that see entrepreneurship as an art form. It really is an art form. And I feel like an artist. I act very much like an artist. In the entrepreneurial space, so I'm still getting that itch scratched, Gary. Um, I'm more arty than I am commercial. I just learned to commercialize my art, which surely every artist wants to commercialize their art. Um, so if I was going back to December the 15th, 2005, this whole NFT space and digitizing your art space, I'd have been all over. And I actually think I'd have done quite well at that. Um, but you know, those times mismatched for me. Maybe they didn't mismatch for others. Um, but what I love about, um, great business is that it was Andy Warhol that says, you know, art is great business and great business is art. Well, great art is great business and, um, the creator economy. I mean, Gary, you and I were on clubhouse all day, every day, which is, I'm sure where we've met many of the people here where we really saw something called the creator economy, cement and solidify before clubhouse, I hadn't even heard that term, um, but essentially what it is. is it is commercializing. You're up. And, um, is that not the best way to make a living to love what you do and do what you love? Um, and I probably wouldn't change anything, Gary, because you know, I've done nearly 200 million now in, um, sales revenue just in my training businesses. I have 1, 350 tenants. I own 430 property rental units myself. You know, I love my family and I love what I do. We've got nearly 150 staff here in my businesses. I get to do crazy things and I can do what I want. Like I had a charity boxing match against someone 25 kilos heavier than me and um, I can just do it and I don't have to get the permission from anyone. So I probably wouldn't change anything, but I definitely think this creator NFT space as an artist back then. Yeah. I'd have been all over that.

Gary Henderson: 15:07

it makes it makes sense to me and you know, I think that I think it's better to be a Rich. I mean, any way we look at it, you've got a shit ton of money. A rich artist, so you can do whatever you want and kind of say fuck you to everyone else, than it is to be a broke artist having to struggle to pay your bills. So I think you, um, I think it worked out just okay for

Rob Moore: 15:33

you, know, I'm actually writing a book at the moment, Gary, which again, I see as an art form called money matrix. And, um, you know, I've been rich and I've been broke, so I've done the split test. A lot of people are only ever broke. They can't give you the split test, but I'll tell you this. Um, this Oppenheimer film that's just come out, which is a great piece of art, Is it done on 12K cameras, Harry? Uh, there's only 12 of these cameras that exist in the world. I think they're 12k. Yeah. And, and, and the film is crazy and basically it's fucking expensive equipment, but that expensive equipment makes a better art form. Surely every, every artist, every photographer, every cameraman, every editor would want the very best equipment. So, um, you know, great art does benefit from being rich and wealthy. And I think becoming I know becoming rich as an art form, just like artists being an artist. Is an art form. Um, the systems and processes that you learn, uh, you, you know, really to become rich, you essentially have to convince people in a very creative way that what you've got to sell, they want to buy. And sometimes they don't know that they need it until you convince them and you get to personalize and make bespoke your own products and services that you sell. And you make money from, I see that as. It's very artistic. Um, uh, in the world of art, so many people have a really bad association with money. Money is just a tool, just like your canvas is a tool and your paintbrush is a tool. Money happens to be a really good tool that you can leverage to create better art.

Gary Henderson: 17:32

Money is a tool. Money is a tool. Money is energy. Money is a tool. I love that. I really, that landed really, really well with me. Sorry. I just wrote that down and put a big box around it on my, on my piece of paper. So Rob, when did you, when did you learn about the power of building your own platform? You know, you're building this training company, you're in real estate. When, when did it click that said like, Hey, I've got to, like, I've got to get a following on these social media platforms. I've got to grow my email list. I mean, you said 800, 000 people on your email list. That's insane. When did you identify that?

Rob Moore: 18:12

16, 17 years ago, Gary, because when I started as an entrepreneur, Everything was, there's a saying, saying in marketing, Gary, I don't know if you remember this, the money is in the list. And what they meant by that was your database is your business, biggest business asset. You know, the people that receive your emails, because back then that was the only way to communicate with people on mass because you couldn't handwrite them on mass. You could do DM, direct mail, postal, but you know, email replaces postal and people didn't really open their posts anymore. So I realized about 17 years ago that money was in the list. So build your email list. What, um, what transition? Cause of the timing that I, so I'm 44. So I don't know many of your creators may be younger than me and may have. started when other people's platforms was the asset. But when I started the email database was the platform and that was your asset and you owned the data. Now Facebook own the data, Instagram own the data, YouTube own the data. Your podcast hosting platform owns the data, blah, blah, blah. So what you're doing, by the way, has upside and downside. The upside is you can leverage other people's platforms. So Gary, you know, you and I became two of the highest followed people in the world on Clubhouse. We essentially leveraged Clubhouse's platform. We wouldn't have been able to do on our own at the same scale. Unless they're on my database, they are not strictly my contact stroke connection, or at least I don't choose when I want to message them because there's an algorithm in the way. There's a platform in the way. So, I built a decent following for someone in my space with what I do, quite a big one I suppose, on other people's platforms and then I saw the risk, I saw the downside. The upside is obviously you're getting the reach and it's free and you're not having to pay for ads. Because the downside is, when you see the algorithm change. So Gary, many of our rooms in Early Day Clubhouse were all moaning about how the Facebook algorithm was really penal. You know, we weren't really getting any of the reach anymore. And at the start, Clubhouse really leveraged that. Then I think they messed up a bit, but they didn't capitalize as well as they could. But they did really leverage that at the start. Um, so that was a great lesson to me that you can have 250, 000 followers and you can have 30 or 50 million views a month. And then overnight, that can go down to 3 million. And then overnight, that can go down to 300, 000. And then overnight, that can go down to 30, 000. And, you know, it was almost like every year an algorithm change. It always seemed to punish those that were doing very well. For example, now, it doesn't really matter that, you know, people who, who may not have a massive following, they may be, Oh, well, it's difficult for me. I don't have a massive following, but you can go viral without a massive following now. And you never used to be able to, you always needed the following. So these algorithms change. And so, you know, seeing that happen a couple of times, Gary, I'm like, I cannot, you know, I want to grow a Decker or even a hundred million revenue business. I need more control. I can't be, um, you know, so affected by the algorithm. So on every channel now, Gary, I make sure that I invite them to follow me on a channel where I can directly connect with them. Um, and I'm going to, I need to just add one more thing to this, which I think is thoroughly fascinating. A billionaire actually predicted this to me way ahead of time. But, so now... Um, I have rob. team, which is my membership site, and I have my, of course, my email database of about 800 and odd thousand people following my property companies and, and my brand and any other platforms that launch that allow me to directly connect with my audience, i. e. I have their contact details. I will, that will be my platform of choice to drive people to. So for example, TikTok, it's very viral. It's, you earn not much money and the connection with that audience is very low. I mean, there's obvious reasons like they're short videos and things, but so what we do with TikTok is we use TikTok to grow YouTube. And then on YouTube, we drive it to our, um, email database. Now I'm gonna give a little, um, possible prediction for the future of the creator economy here. Now look, you have to take predictions with a pinch of salt. And often things either don't happen like we think or they take longer. Uh, I was speaking to a billionaire who spoke, spoke at one of my events, and he spoke on my podcast. And he believed that the future of social media might be where you can port and carry and own your follower connection. For example, you built 300, 000 followers on Facebook. Facebook allow you to connect with them directly. And then when a new social media platform launches, you can port them over because you own the data. And he believed that there might be a disruption in social media. Now, Facebook and Instagram or Meta and all the other channels, they wouldn't want that, would they? But the consumer would want that. I mean, Gary, imagine if the 100, 000 plus followers you've got on Clubhouse, you could connect with them all individually. Someone has said, isn't that the Fediverse? Oh, that's the Fetiverse. So actually, maybe, so it sounds like maybe it's a thing. Maybe it has happened. Yeah, do you want to jump in and go?

Gary Henderson: 24:35

Have you heard about it? Yeah, so, have you heard about Threads? And have you heard about the technology under the hood and why, like, the tech geeks are real excited about it? Or do you? Let me share this with you for a minute. Um, so Threads, which is the new app by Instagram, that you could quickly and easily create your Threads account, it's actually built to run in the Fediverse. And what the Fediverse is, is a decentralized social network. So when you log in to Threads, and if you open up your Threads on your phone right now, and you go to your Threads account, and I'm just doing it so I follow myself here, at the very top next to your username, there's a little pill looking thing that says Threads. net. And if you click that, it says soon you'll be able to follow and interact with people on other Fediverse platforms like Mastodon. They can also find you with your full username, GaryLHenderson at Threads. net. So what's happened is very much like Google became our global sign in on all these platforms, Meta has launched the first app that brought 100 million people into the Fediverse, which is a decentralized social network. And when we want to, we'll be able to connect Our threads accounts are our Fediverse username, basically, to a social audio platform that launches in the Fediverse and all of our followers will instantly be connected to us there, though it's a decentralized social media graph that allows us to spread throughout the Fediverse, the different places we can also realign and pull our audience back and say we want to disconnect from threads and connect somewhere else and reattach our usernames and everything. So it's creating what you were just talking about there, Rob. I'll let you come back in. Thank you.

Rob Moore: 26:14

looks like it, um, is manifesting. I mean, this was David McCourt um, who wrote a book called Rethink, where he thought he thinks that a lot of Um, the way information is exchanged in the political landscape needs a radical rethink. Um, so maybe you should, I mean, can you remember what year it was, Harry, where we interviewed David? You know, when we went down to London and had that cinema that we hired out? 2019. So, yeah, it sounds like this is happening. I mean, like, The way I see this is I'm all for it because, I mean, imagine, do you remember Vine and imagine all those people who built up a million, 5 million, 10 million, however many followers and then Vine just dies. Imagine if every single connection you've ever had, essentially you own in a decentralized manner and you just port it across. To different or poor people, um, your community across all the different platforms that is true decentralization. And I'm of course a massive fan of that. Why wouldn't I be? You know, I think nearly all of what's good about capitalism and, um, You know, a free market is decentralization and what's really bad about it is centralization and control, which is the opposite. But at the moment we seem to be in this really interesting space, Gary, don't we, where we've got decentralization. Whereby creators are creating their own coins, their own NFTs, their own currencies, where YouTube boxers can pull in more pay per views than the best boxers in the world. We've got this big decentralization, Bitcoin, which by the way I love. I mean, you can imagine as an artist and a creator and an entrepreneur, this is like, this is a wet dream for me. Um, but we've also got the... Cap the communism and the, um, the control and the centralization and the threat of a, um, you know, a centralized currency, um, central bank, digital currencies. And we've got this really interesting time in the world where we've got a really good tug of war between the two. Um, one thing I'm telling you for sure, Gary is if they set up a central bank, digital currency, you will see me. I will go to the riot. I will go to London and they will have to arrest me because there is no fucking way that we should have that level of control. Um, and decentralization and the creator economy is also a fight for your own freedom. I don't know how political we want to go here, Gary, but I, you know, I feel strongly about that.

Gary Henderson: 29:10

I'm right there with you, Rob. That's, I mean, I have Gary coin. We're helping creators launch their own tokens. You've got the Prague token. Yeah, I believe in all of that. I don't believe that we should be in a, a central. I don't believe that they should have control over that. I don't, I don't believe they should be able to freeze our assets at any point in time. Our team, the mass majority of our team is based in Lagos, Nigeria, and we deal with that in their country. We deal with, you know, lockdowns of currency and, and how much you can withdraw on certain days and how that works. We pay in crypto, but we deal with this on a regular basis. I think that's a... That's a real concern that we have right now. As a, I mean, as a nation, as a global human society, but also as a creator, because we do weird stuff and, and they don't always understand what we do. We need to be able to pass in a global economy in my

Rob Moore: 29:58

if you want

Gary Henderson: 29:59

mind. So feel free to, to kind of share your vision on that.

Rob Moore: 30:03

you want... Ever improving society and products and services. You need competition. You cannot have centralization communism. You need capitalism. You need private ownership. You know, if I earn and all of it is taken from me by the state, where is my motive? The problem right now is we have, we call it capitalism in the West. But it's not. It's essentially socialism or communism. I mean, most people don't know this, but depending on your federal and state. You, well, all I can say is in the UK, Gary, I'm a higher rate taxpayer. I pay 20 percent of that on top of 25 percent corp on top of 45 percent income on top of national insurance, on top of employee, on top of pension contributions, on top of the tax that I pay on everything that I buy about 70 percent of what I earn and what I spend is tax. So that's wrong. And that's what happens with centralization. That's what happens with communism. That's what happens with an unfair, unfree, over regulated market. Someone has said, sounds like Rob needs to move. Well, do you know what? I don't know if any of you have done economics, but the Laffer curve, if the government charged 0 percent tax, they'll receive 0 tax. If government, the government charge 100 percent tax, they'll receive 0 tax because no one would pay 100 percent tax because you can't afford. And the Laffer curve is the bell, it's a bell curve. And in the middle is the sweet spot whereby maximum revenue for Um, in England, we call it the Inland Revenue, i. e. you charge any more and people will either cheat the system or leave. And everyone's leaving the UK and everyone's leaving the west coast of America. We see this, um, you know, Gary, remind me where you, are you in Costa Rica? Oh, that's it. Four.

Gary Henderson: 32:15

No, I'm in

Rob Moore: 32:15

Gary, we used to be friends. We used to be friends. Um, so exactly.

Gary Henderson: 32:21

4, that's

Rob Moore: 32:21

so people are more mobile now. And countries like Dubai can go, Hey, we don't pay tax. We love entrepreneurs. Come to us. So, yeah, this is, this is real. Um, so. Yeah, but on a more positive note, the creator economy and the decentralized nature that you can create your own coin and you can create your own NFT and you can invest your money into Bitcoin and not put it in the, um, you know, the banks, um, and You can be a creator now, because, you know, BBC are one of the biggest media outlets in the UK, and no one trusts them anymore. And I get more downloads on my podcast than the BBC do on theirs. And I will regularly get more hits on my decentralized content than the BBC gets on its, and it's supposed to be the biggest media channel, so. Um, media is definitely being decentralized and disrupted. Um, Piers Morgan in the UK, he was on a big morning news channel. Um, he had a, um, fallout with Meghan Markle. He's a bit combative, um, Piers is, but he's... You know, he gets good views and he was, he basically said, fuck you. I prefer my freedom over being told to make an apology to someone I don't want to apologize to. And he went and set up on his own and now he's huge and Tucker Colson, it just happened to, and look at how big Andrew Tate is. So, and this is all thanks to decentralization. So, there is this big power struggle and, um, Are we winning? Are we as freedom fighters and creators winning? I actually think we are. Um, because you can create content from anywhere in the world. If you want to move to Puerto Rico, you can. Um, you can run your business from a laptop. You can leverage the internet and social media. And people don't trust mainstream media anymore, which is really good for us, because they need people like us, because they don't trust mainstream media. Do you know how people get their news now? From, do you remember Mario from Clubhouse? Um, and now, yeah, exactly. And, you know, and he runs some good rooms. And he's essentially become a decentralized news

Gary Henderson: 34:36

you are unawful.

Rob Moore: 34:38

millions of views. And people trust him more than they trust... CNBC, or CBC, or whatever CD, whatever letters beginning with C and ending in C there are that is news, um, across the world.

Gary Henderson: 35:01

And then, have you heard now that Twitter's paying their, if

Rob Moore: 35:05

be, isn't it Gary?

Gary Henderson: 35:06

million impressions on your tweets, you get a share of the ad revenue from the revenue they make from your tweets? So they're starting to lean into that, right? Like, we're gonna make some money at Twitter and we're gonna give you a share back. They shipped out the first 5 million about a week

Rob Moore: 35:22

you know, he's gonna, he knows that Twitter has to work commercially. And clearly it was some lefty, hippie show, sorry, you know, but clearly it was and none of them were doing any fucking work. And he came in and got rid of most of them and said, right, we're actually going to work now. Um, and boom, all of a sudden, look, creators are earning money just like they should. Um, we've already had... And now we're getting competition, now threads are set up, and for us as an individual creator, competition is really good. So whether you like, whether you prefer threads over Twitter, you should really embrace the fact that there's competition now. This is good news.

Gary Henderson: 36:16

I agree with you, Rob. So, if a new creator was starting out today, And they don't have the audience and the platform that you have. What advice could you give someone to get started and to grow and maybe eventually get to your level?

Rob Moore: 36:30

so let me try and I like lists. I'm writing my book money matrix at the moment. And the amount of five ways to do this, seven ways to do this. There are a lot of lists. So, um, the first thing is you need to be interesting. Now, one thing I will say is we're all interesting to the right demographic, the right niche. Um, and we can all make ourselves come across more interesting with some little tricks. Like polarity, controversy, um, you know, having an opinion, et cetera. So number one is you need to be interesting. Number two is you need to package that in an interesting way. Um, two, number three, a clear niche. Who's your tribe? Um, then what you need to do is pick one or two of your favorite platforms. So Gary, you're clearly, you clearly love the audio space the most. You know, you, you put a lot of time and energy into audio. You're very much, you're the most disruptive in a good way person I know in. Both Clubhouse and Discord. So, because naturally there's going to be some social media channels you're gonna be like, oh, oh. So find the ones that you're in flow, create content in those, that's stage four. And in stage five, repurpose it across all the other channels. I edit it and chop it up into bits. And, um, then, um, test and measure. So what works? So for example, randomly, anything related to cars is really working well for us. If we have bodybuilders and we ask them if they've taken steroids, that works really well for us. If we ask the question, how do you sell anything to anyone? That works really well for us. So what you do is, you do my first stages and steps, and then you seek out what works well for you and you do more of it. And when you repurpose, instead of just going viral or just having reach on one platform, you'll go viral or have reach on ten platforms. Um, and you then double down on what works, and then Gary, once you get to a decent level, you attract collaborators. So you know, you and I are collaborating here. So you interview me, I interview you, we do chat, you know, I'll bang this on my Disruptors podcast. You'll obviously have it for your tribe. And you know, if you think about Clubhouse Gary, it was one massive collaboration where you actually got rewarded for collaboration. So I'd say collaboration is a great way to grow. If you think about, you know, I interviewed Floyd Mayweather twice and interviewing someone is a collaboration with them. Even though if You might think, oh no, it's an interview. It's not. It's a collaboration because you're reaching their audience. They're reaching yours. Um, a few, a few other little things, which you may or may not want to try. Um, what's trending? Jump on it and see if you can create something of your own on that trend. And also what I call newsjacking, Gary. Now, I'm the most viral for my newsjacking content, i. e. Um, you know, if there's something big in the media or something everyone's talking about, I'll put my own spin and take on it. And I've had hundreds of millions of views doing that kind of content. So for example, um, you might jump and talk about AI and the, you know, the, the dual use paradox of, you know, maybe it could be the best tool known to man, or maybe it could wipe us out within 100 years. Um, so anything that everyone's talking, when everyone was talking about Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, when everyone was talking about lockdown, when everyone was talking about the Ukraine war, you know, you can, like, you can put your own interesting spin on it. And when I first did it, I thought, am I being a bit of a, like, what's the word? Um, a vulture. It didn't feel authentic. But what you do is you put your authentic spin on it, Gary, so that... Um, you know, there, there's, there's a purpose to it. So, you know, knowing what you are, I know I'm a free market capitalist, or I'm an entrepreneur and you know, I know that I love and embrace money and that paradox of art versus commercialism, and so I'll try and put that. For example, when everyone's talking about work from home, I just said, well, what about work from the office? What's wrong with that? And I argued why actually I believe that working from home isn't good for everyone when everyone wanted to work from home. And that, you know, got a lot of virality. A couple of things just to finish, Gary, because, you know, like I said, I like a list and I wanted to go deep on this one because it's a big question. Embrace the haters. Your haters are your best tool for virality. They're in the comments, they're arguing with everyone, there's sub threads and the algorithm loves that. So don't block your haters and don't shy away from them, embrace them, bring them along your journey because actually they are your best friend for virality. And someone there, I love it. Has put their confused fans exactly right, you know. You know, they just don't know they love you yet. After all, if they didn't, if they weren't interested you in some way, What are they doing there? Like, I love my, um, haters. My haters teach me a lot of stuff. My haters are great for the algorithm. Um, I remember when I went to university, And we used to drink a lot. And someone would drink so much that they were going to be sick. And everyone would be like, Oh yeah, trigger. He's going to, he's going to chunder and everyone would come and watch him. And everyone's standing around trigger. It was always the guy that chundered, um, after like two pints and you don't want to watch someone be sick, but you do, and you hate us at the same. No one really wants to hate her, but. You need them and the hater doesn't want to watch you, but they do and, um, embrace it, roll with it. You know, some people say, oh, you know, you should block all your haters. Don't engage with them. It only fuels them. Yeah, but it fuels the algorithm and it fuels virality. So I, I, you know, if you ever look on my comments, there's a decent amount of criticism and hate, and you'll notice I engage with it, I play with it, I often take the piss out of their grammar and punctuation, which is always terrible, uh, and, um, I don't delete it. If it's, um, defamatory, you know, I might send my lawyer out or I might delete something that's abusive, but other than that, you know, I love to dance with my haters.

Gary Henderson: 43:18

I love that. I just finished up a room on Saturday night where a

Rob Moore: 43:21

Tell us about that. I want to hear about that for

Gary Henderson: 43:23

in the

Rob Moore: 43:23

I'd be game for that. A lot of people

Gary Henderson: 43:25

where all of my haters got to come up on

Rob Moore: 43:27

are that, have you got

Gary Henderson: 43:28

one on one and say they wanted to with me. It was wild. Oh, I went through a round again. You remember the round that I went through before where everybody called me a scammer. Well, I went through another one of those again this week. Um, so I had an audience of maybe 30, 000 live in my rooms this week on Friday night. And this is, I mean, this is clubhouse

Rob Moore: 43:56

And it was called

Gary Henderson: 43:57

I was speaking live on clubhouse in front of 2000 people live on clubhouse addressing addressing this stuff. And then Saturday. Well, the room Friday night was something else. And then Saturday night, after all of the hate spewed all week, we said, let's clear the air. And we did the people versus Gary Henderson and I unblocked every single person. We did an open forum for anybody to come in about two and a half hours of anyone that wanted to say anything to me coming up on stage and

Rob Moore: 44:28

Well, let me be your host next time

Gary Henderson: 44:30

what happened to this? I heard this. You said this to me, you pissed me off about this. It was a wild two or two or three hours.

Rob Moore: 44:38

No, I don't know

Gary Henderson: 44:44

We should, we should get you. Um, do you remember rundown from clubhouse? So he runs, this is his content, he runs this type of show, he's all of the big creators, he brings them in in a people versus and lets everybody just go at him. And he hosts it in a calm enough fashion so you can say your piece and you can go back and forth and pack each other up, but no one's gonna get too butthurt at the end of the day. It's fun though. So, Rob,

Rob Moore: 45:11

I'm writing my

Gary Henderson: 45:12

just finished a huge fight, you've done all kinds of insane stuff, what's the next big thing

Rob Moore: 45:18

got a nine month Process with the publishers to come out. So that'll come out mid next year, uh, maybe start of Q2 next year. So that's a current project I'm working on. I think it's going to be one of my most important pieces of work because I really believe that, um, the system needs exposing, um, for the very least for you to learn how to be decentralized around your wealth. So I think it's going to be a very relevant book. I'm working on that. And we're going to do a business and a property super conference next year, which take a lot of work. You know, we have thousands of people that come to those. I just spent six months training for a guy 20, 25 kilos heavier than me. We raised a quarter of a million pounds for charity. That kind of took it out of me a bit actually, it was quite an intense thing. Um, so, I've had to swear and promise to my business partner, my MD and my wife that I won't do anything like that ever again, which really means for a while. So, um, cause I'll be able to like, get enough water under the bridge I can convince them to do other shit. I broke the world record for the longest public speech twice, that was quite cool but, you know, I did that a little while ago. Maybe I'll come out and do something like that again. My business does about, it'll probably do 24 million in revenue this year. Um, sorry, it'll do 24 million in sales this year in the two training businesses. We're buying property at the moment. So I just bought a big pizza express with some uppers that could be converted into flats. And we've got some money in our pension that we need to invest into commercial property. Um, so definitely, and I think a crash is coming big time, Gary. I think prices are really high, but interest rates going up a lot. It's going to hurt a lot of people. So I've been doing real estate for 17 years. I'll certainly be buying more real estate. Um, and then as a 44 year old man who has delusions of being as fit as he was in his 20s, Gary, um, I try and challenge myself at least once every two years to do some crazy fitness challenge of which I suppose you could call the boxing fight one of them. So I'm doing something called high rocks. Which is like cross training for psychos. Have a look at it. H Y R O X. Um, I'll do I'm doing that at the end of November because... It gets harder and harder to, Bobby says I've got noobs, which is apparently man boobs. Um, but I don't think I have, but you know, kids are cheeky. So I want to make sure that I stay fit. So I like to challenge myself to do something new fitness wise. Um, there's a couple of other big projects I'm working on that are potentially worth tens of millions, but, um, I have to stay. Confidential about the two that I'm working on but they're big projects and no of Jesse Itzler Um, I haven't heard of those races, but I know once David Goggins got

Gary Henderson: 48:38

Have you heard of Jesse Itzler's 2 9 races? We did, so... He's launched this running company, it's called All Day Running Company. He's got these smoothie packs in the stores and all this stuff, but he takes over these mountains, these ski lifts, and you go up and down the ski lift like 17, 18 times. It's the equivalent of climbing Mount Everest. And he brings in all the big speakers and all the, the saunas and it's a big thing and you got to do it in like 24 hours. When I was working with Lewis Howes, he went to the very first

Rob Moore: 49:17

because something like

Gary Henderson: 49:18

Jesse's turned that into a pretty big

Rob Moore: 49:19

horrific therefore

Gary Henderson: 49:21

and good connections and, and a pretty big, um, test of, of endurance.

Rob Moore: 49:35

Yeah,

Gary Henderson: 49:35

I sure will, Rob. So, thank you so much for coming on today. I really, really appreciate you. This was amazing. Where can our community connect with you? Other than rob. team, what's the best platforms or just everywhere?

Rob Moore: 49:45

it. Rob more progressive. Um, my podcast is called disruptors. We're nearly a thousand episodes in now. You love a podcast. You know, my vibe is money, entrepreneurship, the creator economy, social media. So I think, you know, you're probably all gonna resonate with, with some of that. Um, and I've written, um, a lot of books. So I'd probably, if you're an entrepreneur, life leverage, and if you want to learn about making money, I would need money. That's probably where you, where you want to go.

50:32

What an amazing session with Rob Moore. Well, he's got a huge platform and I'm so grateful that he took some time to come and spend with us today in the studio. And share with you how we can use money. How we can grow our audiences. And a little bit about, you know, where he thinks we're going in the future. If you've enjoyed today's show, go ahead and click the follow button at the top. I want to make sure you never miss one of our episodes. I'd love for you to come and connect with me on X. Like I'm spending a lot of time on there these days. So I want you to go to X, which is Twitter. It used to be Twitter. Anyway. And I want you to look up Gary Henderson. I look like it's giraffe. I want you to go give me a follow. And if you feel like it, click the subscribe button. I have a lot of cool subscriber, only content. I'd love to connect with you there. Um go ahead and subscribe to the show and i'll catch you again next week